because this is breaking news right now. the new jersey governor scrambling to try to react to the stunning new indications that his close aides deliberately and gleefully, gleefully plotted revenge against a political opponent last e--mails emerged today that a top christie aide helped orchestrate lane closures on a bridge connecting new york city and new jersey, closures that created a potentially very dangerous traffic backup. late this afternoon, the governor finally responded in a written statement and he said this, what i see today for first time is unacceptable. i'm outraged and deeply saddened to learn that not only was i misled by a member of my staff, but this completely inappropriate and unsanctioned conduct was made without my knowledge. one thing is clear -- this type of behavior is unacceptable and i will not tolerate it because the people of new jersey deserve better.

this behavior is not representative of me or my administration in any way, and people will be held responsible for their actions. s.e. and stephanie, let's discuss how damaging this potentially could be for chris christie. s.e., first to you. >> look, i think if you're in not new jersey or not d.c., you look at this story, which is actually pretty complicated, and you think, he did what, to who, when, where, what? and you kind of write it off. and two, i think this doesn't create a new narrative about chris christie. he's already cemented a narrative as being something of a bully. if this was happening in his administration, i don't think it would be shocking. i think in the end, not the lane closures, but the lying about it. if it turns the out that he is lying about what he knew or whether he ordered it, that's going to be the worst, the most damaging. because his authenticity is his

calling card and that will call that into question. >> i think it's not hard to follow the story regardless of where you live that somebody is seeking political retribution and somebody is bullying -- >> yeah, but -- >> the thing that people are hearing is that chris christie bullied someone. they don't like bullying. >> news flash. >> they don't like it when they see it in washington and they don't like it in their own community. why would they want somebody like that as president? there were already major questions about how somebody like him was going to play in iowa. >> right. >> south carolina. even new hampshire. i mean, what's he going to do if he doesn't get his way in iowa, is he going to shut down i-80? that's not going to go over well. you're right. his biggest calling card, the thing that people liked about him most and the thing that has lifted up his numbers and the heads of hillary clinton and everybody else, was his authenticity, a straight talker. but this other side of him is

going to be the bigger story because this will be a drip, drip, drip. he needs to explain -- he said he didn't know. >> yes. >> he's implying that he was lied to. >> right. >> who is this text messager -- >> no, we have a lot more to learn. >> from the documents that have been released. why was this culture created in the governor's office where something like this was acceptable? because obviously this was condoned. >> if it turns out that he lied, that's going to be a bad day for christie. >> maybe the latest example, there's going to be other ex examples to come out. joe johns has other developments coming in. >> s.e., this is a new headache for the chris christie administration. this is a letter from the emergency services coordinator in fort lee, new jersey. his name is paul savia. he ticks off in this letter four occasions when emergency medical crews were delayed from responding to calls apparently due to the change in traffic patterns in the fort lee area

during the time period in question. we're talking about a vehicle accident with injuries involving four patients and also and perhaps most importantly, he reports a woman was in cardiac arrest and says she was later pronounced at inglewood hospital, generally in the parlance, pronounced means pronounced dead. there are a couple other details in the letter that favia ticks off of people suffering chest pains. this letter is not political, it was dated september 10th of last year. the only recommendation he makes is some type of modification or change to the new traffic patterns. but what it does indicate is how serious it is when you start fooling around with the traffic patterns on a major thoroughfare. as i said, it could only add to the headaches for the chris christie administration at this stage. >> joe, we have the letter as well. and it's very earnest, and the date was the first thing i

noticed. this was not written today to say, guess what i knew happened a year ago. this was in the moment a concerned official who didn't understand why it was taking a lot longer to get -- >> right. when you shut down local access lanes on the gw bridge, anybody who has traveled up the northeast corridor knows the implications of that. everything shuts down. we know that there are consequences now for public health. we know that there are consequences with just getting our kids to school. consequences for people getting to work. there are consequences to political retribution and bullying. when i said earlier that there's going to be a drip, drip, drip here now, this is an example of what we'll see. this will be a long story. he's got more questions to answer. he needs to apologize and take responsibility. >> i think, yeah, again, i hope he didn't have anything to do with it, but if it turns out he's lying, this is a bad thing. >> his administration, he set the culture. >> but the good will he got from democrats after sandy hook when

he was helping out the party or perceived that way, will be gone. there's 2014 and there's 2016. they know he's a political threat for the presidency. there there be bath or blood. >> taken a big hit today. whatever threat there was, he's got a lot to overcome to get beyond this. there are already questions about whether a new jersey governor known for his straight talk/bullying would play well in the rest of the country. the results of this story will show that it doesn't. >> i hope he's clean, i really do. a few minutes ago in cnn's "the situation room" i spoke with the mayor -- oh, no, i didn't. that's for wolf. back to you. i knew i wasn't there. >> that's me. i was in "the situation room." you guys were outside of "the situation room." and i had a chance to speak with mayor mark sokolich. he's the mayor of fort lee, right at the heart of this controver controversy. because it was his community of

fort lee, new jersey, on one side of the george washington bridge, that was punished by these political shenanigans. what should be done to those who were responsible when all the dust clears, when we know everything about this? >> well, for those that are responsible are responsible for this most heinous act, they can no longer be in positions of power in government. wolf, if you know me nor 30 seconds, you know i don't have an ounce of venom in me. as a matter of fact i've stayed in the background of this story. i didn't decide to join the fray of this until today when these e-mails surfaced. i'm not a retribution kind of a guy, but the folks who are responsible for this can no longer be in positions that they can actually cause this type of damage to other unsuspecting communities. it's not acceptable. but i have a prediction. you'll have a resignation or two and you'll hear, of course, that this was part of their career path and they were resigning anyway. it's not even remotely acceptable to do what you did. it is the lowest, most venomous

form of political retaliation. and this in a time when new jersey needs this like we need a hole in the head. we've now ensured that we're going to remain the butt of every political joke for the next 20 years on political misconduct. i'm actually ashamed. >> you're ashamed for your entire -- what? ashamed about what? >> i'm ashamed to be in the position of an elected official in the state of new jersey and now to be painted with broad strokes and have to deal with business as usual here in the state of new jersey. it's not fair. it's not fair to the folks that follow the rules. it's not fair to the folks who are in these positions for the right reasons. >> you know, s.e. and stephanie, i got to tell you, weeks ago when we first learned about this story, i was sort of shrugging, what's the big deal? doesn't seem like a big deal. but today it's all of a sudden become a huge, huge deal in part because this governor, who was so popular -- is so popular in

new jersey, won reelection by a landslide, was considered one of the leading republican presidential candidates, potentially is in deep, deep trouble right now. a lot depends on how he deals with this crisis, what additional information we learn. s.e. and stephanie, pick it up. tell us how much trouble the governor politically may be in. >> well, s.e., you suggested earlier today that a way for him to get out of his political trouble would be to resign. >> yep. >> and invoke some sympathy. >> play ya culp pa, say he did it. only if he did it. not if he didn't do it. then that would be silly. wolf, i'm really glad you were there to interview that mayor and i wasn't. >> you would have done a great job. >> no, it was a great job. thank you, wolf. >> thank you. in a minute we're going to switch to another big topic today. republicans are putting out ideas to help grow the middle

class. so where is president obama? we'll ask two members of congress, next.

welcome back. in the crossfire tonight member ps of congress from both political parties. today in a change of course the republican party put income and equality on center stage just as the country marks 50 years since president lyndon johnson's famous address on the war on poverty. today marco rubio full-time senator and part-time presidential candidate, offered this. >> we should pursue reforms that encourage and reward work. this would allow an unemployed individual to take a job paying $15,000 a year, which on its own is not enough to make ends meet, but then they receive a federal enhancement to make the job a more enticing alternative to just simply collecting unemployment insurance. >> if that sounds familiar, that's because it is.

president obama has been fighting to may work pay and fight the unemployment problem for year s only to be blocked b republicans. >> we have to do more to help the long-term unemployed in their search for work. people who collect unemployment insurance participate in temporary work as a way to build their skills while they look for a permanent job. >> senator rubio, in all seriousness, i'm glad you decided to be part of the conversation, but now please put your money where your mouth is. don't just lay down a campaign speech, work with the president, your fellow republicans and to get things done. >> they've been talking about inequality in income and working on ways to change that. for all of president obama's lip service, it has not moved the needle. when the president first came into office median household income was 51,000 now it's around 50,000.

it has widened with this president more than past president. either democrats don't care about this issue except as an election year talking point or they do care but their poll sis haven't worked to solve it. >> s.e., give me a break, republicans consistently cut $40 billion in the house out of food stamps. >> poverty, income and equality, congresswoman. >> no, because it keeps people from going into poverty. when lbj launched the war on poverty, he said it was unconditional, yet republicans over and over put conditions on people's poverty and on their income. how do we close those gaps? even job retraining, the president said we want to do job retraining, skills building for the 21st century, republicans have said no. the president put forward rebuilding our roads, bridges, infrastructure so it could put people back to work. republicans have said no, no,

no. food stamps, actually helps them and supports them because they need those food stamps -- >> what happened when you guys held both houses of congress. >> look. >> that was the president's fault as well? >> the president came into office losing 700,000 jobs every single month. this economy that the president has created over the last six years has actually regained all of those jobs that have been lost and is growing the economy again except that republicans are standing in the way of the kinds of things that would actually make a difference to working people, raising the minimum wage. why are you opposed to raising the minimum wage. >> also wouldn't solve poverty. >> i'd like to peek to that. >> we heard senator rubio say $18,000 is not enough to live on. people earning the minimum wage -- >> half of people are minimum wage are between the ages of 16 and 24. they're suburban high school and college kids. >> 20% are kids.

the rest are single women, overwhelmi ining majority of th are women. they're trying to make ends meet. look at the income gap between working families and the rich. >> almost everybody -- i hate to use percentages when we talk about people. but 97% of people, almost everybody who has a full-time job is out of poverty. >> which are a significant number of people. >> it is, there's no question. but it's clearly the minimum wage is not the answer to getting people out of poverty. it's getting people in full-time permanent jobs. that's where the president -- i want to push back a little bit when you said that the president has regained all the jobs that he lost during his first term. that's not true. there's actually 1.9 million fewer people working today than there was when this president came into office. he stands to be the first president in history to leave office with fewer people working than who began worked. >> when the president came in it was inching up toward 10%.

what we do know is that we have in this country we've created gaps of employment where the greatest income gains in the country in the last several years have gone where, they've gone to that top 1%. when lbj launched that bar on poverty, unconditional, he didn't say we needed to do one thing. he said we needed to do several things. he created a number of programs that could actually do thatp about and one by one, republicans in the congress are whittling away at that. >> let's talk about the gap programs we're talking about. let's talk about the programs that actually lift people out of poverty, strengthen the middle class, close the income gap. the president has proposed several things. removing the financial deterrence to marriage for low-income couples which has been shown to lift people out of poverty. investing heavily in community colleges. and then opening up the doors to college so that people can lift themselves up and build a better lives for themselves.

republicans have fought us every step of the way. marco rubio laid out an almost identical agenda today. i want to know is this an indication that we can finally start working together on these programs? >> if the measurement of then we're the most compassionate country on the face of the nation. if the measurement is are we actually having success and getting people out of poverty and to lbj's point, worrying about poverty, then what we've done for the last 50 years is a dismal failure. i hope we can agree on that. it hasn't worked. we've spent 20 trillion dollars in the last 50 years and we have more people in poverty, then it's not working. we need to have a discussion of how much money we spend isn't a measure of our compassion. >> let me ask you an economic question. why would you raise the minimum wage incentivizing people to stay longer in a low skilled,

low paying job by paying them more? why isn't the effort to get people out of minimum wage jobs? >> the reality is, as i said, you don't just do one thing. for the 30 million people who benefit from an increase in the minimum wage from $7.25 to $10.10, that's great for 30 million people. for others who would benefit for job training, we have to do job training. we have to put a skill base that matches the 21st century. do things. if we want to work with the tax code, expand research and development tax credit so that we're actually investing in the kinds of things that will grow the kinds of jobs that we need for the 21st century. it's not a one shot off. we have to take these multiple talks to get people out ever poverty but improve the prospects of all of those middle class people who have lost incomes. >> it's also insulting to say that those people earning minimum wage want to stay there. >> how is that? >> incentives to keep them --

>> did not come out of my mouth. >> you're right, you didn't say that, but that's the implication of providing incentives to keep people in minimum wage jobs. they want to make sure that -- >> it's mathematically -- it works against their best interests. >> the 40 hours of work that they're putting in every week should pay. marco rubio says that work should pay today. the president has been saying that for a long time. it's not currently paying. they're earning $14,500 a year. they're 17% below the poverty line. we should -- >> we should get them out of poverty. raising the minimum wage won't do that. >> if you raise the minimum wage for those workers, that is a huge difference for them. it means, for example, that they don't have to rely as heavily on food stamps that you want to cut anyway. they don't have to rely as heavily on energy assistance, on housing assistance. raising the minimum wage, they put that money into the economy, directly into the economy -- >> it means less hiring.

>> no. >> there's not a single study that has demonstrated that when you raise the minimum wage there's less hiring. >> we have to go to break. we have time to continue this discussion when we come back so stay here. next, the final question for both of our guests. we also want you at home to weigh in on today's fireback question. do you think that raising the minimum wage would reduce poverty. tweet yes or no using #crossfire. we'll have the results after the break. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa!

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we're back with representatives donna edwards and mitt mulvaney. congressman, i cut you off before. for or against raising minimum wage? >> against. i do think it will cost people their jobs. there may be people who benefit from it, there are others who may lose theirs. maryland wants to raise their, that's fine. there are 21 states that have decided to do that. states can practice different things. they can exeperiment with different things. >> congresswoman, it seems like democrats are putting a lot of energy and attention in minimum wage in raising it in an election year. i have a feeling i know why they're doing that. what happens if republicans vote to raise it? what do you move to next? what's the next sort of election year issue you want to hang? >> the last time we raised

minimum wage it's because democrats did it. i think it's time for us to raise that wage from $7.25 to $10.10, tie it to inflation so we don't have to engage in these debates again and let that benefit 30 million people across this country and raise the wage base. i think it's important to move from there to things like how do we create jobs and grow the economy for all of the middle class. how do we invest in infrastructure to rebuild the nation's infrastructure. those are things that are important to growing the economy. >> thanks to representative donna edwards and nick mulvaney. >> go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. do you think minimum waging raised would decrease poverty. >> the debate continues online as well as on facebook and twitter. from the left i'm stephanie cutter. >> and i'm from the right. erin burnett "out front" starts

erin burnett "out front" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> announcer: next, bridge over troubled water. chris christie under fire today accused of plotting political revenge. >> i find it hard to believe that this administration wasn't directly involved. >> is it the end of his presidential dreams? plus, dennis rodman's strange trip gets even stranger. ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you and a call for help ends with a deadly police shooting. the stepbrother of the teenage victim talks to cnn. >> they had the situation completely under control. >> but the third officer? >> the third officer is 100% in the wrong. >> let's